HOW TO TALK ABOUT FOOD AND BODIES WITHOUT MAKING IT ABOUT WEIGHT
Podcast transcript with Lisa Radzak
Host: Christine Miroddi Yoder
Air date: October 19, 2026
Lisa Radzak: Hi, I'm so glad to be with you, Christine. Thank you so much for having me.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Oh, thanks for joining us. I'm really excited to talk to you. I know you have done so much work with eating disorders and, our kids, they technically, it's called pediatric feeding disorder.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: It's a, kinda like a type of eating disorder, but there is so much, I think, to explore before I even knew about these different feeding issues that kids could have is what else can happen? What are other feeding disorders?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: What creates that? And so I'm really excited to chat with you today. But first tell me how you got interested in this field, helping young people with their body image. How did it all start?
Lisa Radzak: You don't realize this until you're an adult, but you look back and my earliest memories were very...
Lisa Radzak: There were a lot of memories around my body and not liking how it looked. And for me how that led to feeding and eating issues was you get the message, messages pretty early. And actually it's part of our work now. You get the messages pretty early that if you feeling dissatisfied with your body, the way to fix that is to manipulate food.
Lisa Radzak: And, you start restricting, dieting, not eating certain foods eating food groups or cutting out food groups. So a lot of my earliest years and all the way through were with either body dissatisfaction, which was then disordered eating which eventually morphed into an eating disorder in high school, and that continued, through college.
Lisa Radzak: And then I was really lucky to find a really good treatment provider and then begin recovery from an eating disorder. And one of the things I always felt was like, I was so lucky how things lined up for me that, with treatment, that they don't with others. And I made a note to myself someday when I have the opportunity, I wanna give back, 'cause I saw how many people struggle for years and years with the treatment process.
Lisa Radzak: And so then this work came up for me. It kinda came on my plate to get involved with Withall and to bring that experience that I had and all the things I was learning from parents whose kids either died from an eating disorder or had eating disorders and were, they're struggling so mightily.
Lisa Radzak: And then combining that with the research that we know is there about things we can do as adults with the environment, how we're talking about food, how we're talking about bodies, so that kids don't... They have less, much less risk of developing an eating disorder in the first place, right? So that's my kind of personal journey into all of this.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Wow. That is, that's really amazing that you had such a personal connection. It was- Yeah ... happening to you, and then you were like, "I'm going to do something about this to help other people so it doesn't happen to them." Amazing. And I heard something that you were saying. You said, it was your body image from when you were so young that it started.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: And one of the things you mentioned was that you can I think you said it. Food is one of the one things that you can control, and I do find that happens a lot with our kids. I see that that control piece. It's this is like one of the only things in my whole day or life that I have- what goes in my mouth, right? And that is like such a, it's a powerful position to be in, like as the individual. But also like scary too, at the same time.
Lisa Radzak: Yeah, it's danger- it's dangerous, right? It's a fact. It's a fact, and it's very dangerous. It can be.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah, absolutely. And it's, I think that's the piece also that kind of scares our parents sometimes too, 'cause it's I can't make them eat, but I know that they have to eat."
Christine Miroddi Yoder: And I'm, I bet now, 'cause you're also a mom too, I wonder, did you have those same sort of thoughts in it's my job to get them to eat. They need food or they need nutrition. I think a lot of parents feel like that pressure of that responsibility to get them to eat, that like feeling.
Lisa Radzak: I do know what you mean. And the earlier years, I look I'm trying to remember how we did things the earlier years, and it was before I got to do this work full-time, so there was so much I didn't know as a parent.
Lisa Radzak: I knew going in with my experience with food and body image that like the first is the knowing you've had an issue, so you don't necessarily have the roadmap to- effectively teach a young person.
Lisa Radzak: I knew I did not know a lot of things I wished I did. As I began this work, I learned what I did not want to say or do around young people: comments about bodies, or linking food or exercise to appearance or weight.
[Personal family anecdote removed.]
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's a tricky thing 'cause it's like a, it comes from love, so but, there's like that, "Oh, but I can't," "I can't go too far. I can't push them or I can't say certain things." But that's a good question. Like how... I do wanna get into like what should we say instead or what is could be harmful to say as well.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: But like even before that, how does the eating disorders start? How do they begin? Where are the little, the roots starting to grow on that?
Lisa Radzak: Yeah. Thank you so much for asking because it's one thing that's been my sub-mission within our mission. So our mission, the, with ALL's organization's mission is to help young people feel good in their bodies and with food.
Lisa Radzak: I think you can relate to this mission, Christine?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah.
Lisa Radzak: And but a sub-mission in there, or part of how I feel like we, it's important we go about that is to back up, and the reason we do that is to reduce the risk of both eating disorders and then other seriously harmful health conditions.
Lisa Radzak: Within that, I feel like it's really important to do that we back out to see, how do these things, these conditions develop in the first place? And with, not ARFID as one of the eating disorders, but with anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa, binge eating disorder otherwise unspecified food, feeding and eating disorder I think it's really important to look at the fact that almost all of the cases of those start with, at some point, body dissatisfaction.
Lisa Radzak: I feel dissatisfied in my body, meaning I think something isn't okay about how my body looks. And as I say now, if I had a magic wand, if I could just eliminate one thing from all of our culture, it would be body dissatisfaction.
Lisa Radzak: No one feels dissatisfied with their body, how their body looks or its appearance, right? Because that would eliminate most eating disorders if you took away bodies. So just being aware of when we start the message, when the kids begin to be swimming in the environments where the messages are about your body needs to look this way to be attractive, successful a good athlete, it has to look this way.
Lisa Radzak: All the things that we do with the appearance of body and body weight. Once the kids are starting to pick up those messages, which is what our the Witholds, what to say resources are about trying to help parents not further those messages and protect the environments from those messages.
Lisa Radzak: Because once those messages start, a kid's internalizing, "Okay, I have to change my body to be okay," or I just live with shame about how my body looks. And then the next step is now we're into the disordered eating. Now I'm gonna... which is so prevalent. It's culturally sanctioned, 'cause dieting is disordered eating, right?
Lisa Radzak: You're restricting foods- ... with the goal of trying to change your body, right? So the, from body dissatisfaction, we get into disordered eating. Now eating disorders themselves, not all of us are gonna develop an eating disorder. Some of us did. It's about 10% of us. But you don't know who is going to, and it's based in genetics, and it's biopsychosocial, right?
Lisa Radzak: So there's some factors for eating disorders that can't necessarily be changed, like your genetics. And I could talk about that, like those of us that have an eating disorder, what are our what are our genetic traits, right? We're, external motivated, we're perfectionists, we're high pain tolerance, we're all these, there's this...
Lisa Radzak: You can find that on the internet, and I really encourage people to do that because I think one of the things I've realized is like people don't even know like the basic risk factors, and they're easy to find. Just to be aware. It doesn't mean your kid is gonna develop an eating disorder if they have these, but if you know your kid is predispositioned in these ways, just to be aware.
Lisa Radzak: That's something to be aware of, right?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah, absolutely, 'cause I imagine especially today, it's very hard to keep them away from, social media, movies, their favorite singers, and there's just all of these now influencers who is like a whole new category of I wanna be like this one.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: I wanna be like that one." I imagine that only made the job harder for you guys of how do you- Oh, gosh ... control that environment?
Lisa Radzak: The, the truth of the matter is, and I think you, you probably can agree with this, the earlier you start, the better. Because there's a whole bunch you can do from zero to, say, five.
Lisa Radzak: I always feel like once they get to school age things change, right? There's... You lose a the ability to impact a good amount of their day at that point. It doesn't mean there aren't, but this is what our resources are for, right?
Lisa Radzak: There's things that you that even as a parent, but also we try to make sure that schools have these resources, that coaches have these resources, that the healthcare providers, pediatricians have these resources. We can only do what we can do. It's, we can't put all of this on the parents, right?
Lisa Radzak: Even after age five up until, 11, 12 there's certainly things at home you can do with, what we watch and don't watch, what we do with digital and what we don't do. And trying to start that earlier so it's not suddenly being imposed. Yeah. That being said, I always say to anybody, and I really believe this, my mom, this is the example, my mom smoked a lot when I was a kid.
Lisa Radzak: And she decided for health reasons to stop when I was probably, I don't know, let's say 13, 14. That made such a huge impression on me with regard to how she viewed health and her body and taking care of her body. So no matter... This is, the reason I say that is, no matter what we've done to date, no matter what it is- there's always a good time to start, So it's if we've done things that maybe we realize at a certain point aren't super helpful with body, how we talk about bodies, how we talk about foods, and then we learn "Oh, maybe I should be doing it this way," kids appreciate that. I really believe that. They feel like, "Oh, this is...
Lisa Radzak: we can pivot. We can change how we do things." And there's a lesson there too,
Christine Miroddi Yoder: yeah. And I heard you saying it's like modeling, like being a model, you know- Yeah ... to your child. Maybe I don't know. Is there like, what are some things like maybe parents can say when they see, I don't know, maybe they see a, a su- a superstar on stage and they're, you know- Yeah
Christine Miroddi Yoder: they look very fit and their child is idolizing them, like maybe is there something that a parent should say or shouldn't say
Lisa Radzak: yeah. We always say we have these three, At WorthAll, we have these three simple shifts we call them. For someone who's like just getting into this, like what are the...
Lisa Radzak: w- it's like, "Oh, this is too overwhelming." Okay, so what you're telling me is I've been doing everything wrong and I'm gonna mess my kid up, and it's like we have good news. ... It's very simple. Now, you'll one will start to realize, whoa, there's a lot of places this will apply, but it's still very simple.
Lisa Radzak: You can always go back to these three things. One, treat all kids and all bodies the same. What does that mean? It means there's n- we don't single a kid out for special treatment because of the way their body size, weight, or shape is. I heard a horrifying, and this was not that long ago. I was like, "Am I dreaming?" I thought I was dreaming, I really did.
Lisa Radzak: It was an interview with a pediatrician, and she was talking about one thing we can do for childhood obesity is the child that has the larger body, take them aside before meals and have them drink hu- like, a huge glass of ice water. I'm telling you, this was, like, a year... it wasn't 30 years ago.
Lisa Radzak: This was recent, right? And I'm like, "Oh, my good God." The shame, the okay... And I had some of that from very caring adults who love me very much, and they were just really scared of how the world would receive me if I was chubby or bigger, right? So these sort of best intentions, no judgment 'cause people are doing the best they can, the messages the kid is getting is you are uniquely flawed.
Lisa Radzak: Because a kid doesn't separate themselves from their body, right? To a kid, they are their body. What we're saying in doing because of their body is, "You are this. You are uniquely flawed. You need special treatment to be controlled and contained. Your appetite is too much." All these other unintended messages is what the kid is getting, right?
Lisa Radzak: So number one, treat all kids and all bodies the same when it comes to good health behaviors, right? Now, I know for some of the work that, that you do Christine, and that folks listen to, I understand there's nuances when it comes to feeding. And that I think is important if a child has special needs around feeding and eating.
Lisa Radzak: One of the things you said is we're not gonna make, "Oh, look at how great they're eating." You're never gonna do that. It's one of your principles. You're never gonna be like, "You- I wish you could just eat like them," or you could... because someone isn't e- is a picky eater or- ... so I think that lines up pretty squarely with the point I'm making here about bodies. Number two don't, to the extent humanly possible, and you'll a person will start to see this everywhere, don't comment or even compliment on bodies, I would say- ... ever. Yeah. Which is big. You think about it.
Lisa Radzak: It's very simple, but it's big. And then I would say especially whenever you can, and really when they're younger, this really matters I think, don't compliment based on appearance. Yeah. It's like, what are you saying? Why? It's because to a kid now, y- it's like your appearance and your body is to be evaluated and judged.
Lisa Radzak: Again, thinking of a child's mind. Us adults get it. It's like, "Oh, they're trying to give me a compliment," right? But to a kid, you're teaching them something about their body and their appearance that we don't necessarily wanna teach.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah. That's a really good point, and I think it's so innocent. I'm sure I have done it a million times.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Oh, you look so beautiful today," you just give a compliment, but I'm not even thinking I'm commenting on their appearance, which is technically making a judgment.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Cause maybe if I- they weren't wearing that dress, maybe I would've been like, "Yeah, they just look okay."
Lisa Radzak: And some people are like I think sometimes this can feel like deflating for people because, like I've said this to folks, and the reaction is that's too much."
Lisa Radzak: It feels very New Age language policy, I think, to some folks. But I think particularly as it relates to the body, right? For someone to say, and this is at any age, but really when someone's young or going through puberty or younger, commenting on, "You look so great, have you lost weight?"
Lisa Radzak: Or, "Wow, you look..." Or i- if you've noticed their body has changed, saying, "Your body looks so great," or, "You look so great." Because the kid is hearing certain things, and their bodies are gonna change. Okay. And this is something that a lot of folks that I know that have gone through anorexia nervosa, they started out, people, "Oh, you're such a skinny little thing," it's well intended, right?
Lisa Radzak: But then they go through puberty, and they're not a skinny little thing anymore. Yeah. What does that say to them that they've internalized? Remember, they, kids see their bodies as them. They're not separate. So it's not I am not as valuable now because my body is not skinny little thing, right? Got it.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Okay. That's good.
Lisa Radzak: So you can tell-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: That's a good distinction ... by what I'm wearing. Yeah. And but yeah and you're teaching me. 'Cause in my mind I was like, "Oh maybe I shouldn't comment on their dress," but that's not necessarily them. You're saying "Don't comment on your physical body."
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Oh your eyes," right? Am I getting it right? Y-
Lisa Radzak: yeah. Okay. I think, and it's different ages, it's more nuanced, so let's just stop and give some examples. Ready?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Okay.
Lisa Radzak: You have a four-year-old.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: I'm ready.
Lisa Radzak: You have a four-year-old in a beautiful little princess dress as they will wear.
Lisa Radzak: Now, again, I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade here. But what I choose, what I would choose to not do, what I wouldn't do today with a four-year-old girl in a pretty little princess dress, "You look so beautiful. Your dress is so beautiful."
Lisa Radzak: Because what are we teaching them about what is important? Do we want them, their brain and energy, power to be on looking so beautiful with a clothing item? Some people might say- ... yeah, that is what they want. I say, "Good for you. You're an adult, you can decide for yourself what you wanna do." When these kids' brains are like little sponges on steroids- Yeah
Lisa Radzak: and they're just, "Where am I valuable in the world? Where do I... Who sees me? Who appreciates me? Who-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: And what gets me attention?
Lisa Radzak: And what's get me, what gets me attention, which I'm saying as what gets me valued- Yeah ... 'cause that means attention is I'm valued, 'cause I'm getting attention. Yeah. It's, I don't want it to be on what they're wearing or what they look like.
Lisa Radzak: Kids need to s- be seen and recognized. So there's times where I'm like, "If you want my opinion, I just want you to know I think your hair looks great today," or, "For what it's worth, I just think you, the, the outfit you put together, the colors are awesome."
Lisa Radzak: Or, right? You don't wanna just never say anything because at certain ages- ... they're really hungry to just be seen and recognized for who they are and how they're showing up. So there's not, it's not always black and white. I think at the younger ages, for me at least, it was pretty black and white.
Lisa Radzak: So one of the things that I wanna get at, and you said it, the, when someone is really admiring in the media, a certain person, what can you do? It goes to the thing I just said, right? Is that it's not just from, with all standpoint, mine, don't comment on other, don't comment on the kid's body.
Lisa Radzak: It's also don't comment on our own bodies, judgment. And then don't comment on people that are on TV or screens that aren't even in the room. Because you're teaching them this mom thinks that fit... if you, it, like for example, "Wow, that person has great legs. Look at how beautiful they look." And the little sponge is "Mom thinks it's really important to have those kind of legs."
Lisa Radzak: Yes. Or Mom thinks it's important to be that fit. ... When a lot of people-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Or like you said, comments on yourself. "Oh, I, ugh, I gotta get rid of this mark," or, "I've gotta go get my eyebrows done." Right? They're probably taking that in and saying, "Oh, something, she doesn't like that part of her body.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: That's not good."
Lisa Radzak: Yeah.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: And, and-
Lisa Radzak: That's what they're thinking ...
Lisa Radzak: and the, the... Yes. And the thing about the third party, So much of that, the way people look online on screens, it's literally impossible for sometimes the actual people because it's manipulated, but also for 99.9% of us, like no matter what we do, we're not gonna look like that.
Lisa Radzak: The kids will try, and that is only a absolute recipe for dangerous disaster, right? The last one, the last of the three simple shifts is, and this kinda gives people head- head a little spin, but don't tie food, what you- either you're eating, what the child is eating, what someone third party is eating, to appearance and weight.
Lisa Radzak: Don't eat that because you're gonna get chubby. Don't eat that because you... If we can keep food squarely in the category of feeding and nourishment and what we need for our bodies to live and do well, and not have it be a tool for an, manipulating our appearance, the better we'll be. So it's like if your head spins a little by that, which sometimes you have to just stop and be like, "I'm not gonna talk about this food, this meal, this snack in relationship to how it changes or doesn't change our body."
Lisa Radzak: Which is very difficult because I think all of us were raised in a culture where that's what is. We can't... It's wait a minute, what? Food doesn't... What? It's like it's not the same. It's different. Let's keep food about food. Same thing with exercise. To teach kids we exercise to look a certain way or 'cause it's gonna burn calories, what a quicker way to kill physical activity.
Lisa Radzak: I need to go burn calories. Just murder it for the kids. Like, why would you ever go and engage in physical activity if that's... and we wonder why some of these kids- Yeah,
Christine Miroddi Yoder: that's not fun at all. ...
Lisa Radzak: yeah why don't I like to do activity? It's like because it's been squashed for all of us, yeah. Those are the three simple shifts.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Those are great points. Yeah, those are great points. I think we overlap with a lot of that as well. One of the things we'd say to parents is, you could say that this, this type of food gives you energy to play. That's a lot more motivating than this food is gonna keep you at a certain weight
Lisa Radzak: I can't eat that because I've getting, I have to lose five pounds or, ... I need to only eat protein
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah.
Lisa Radzak: because- That's what I need to do to look good.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Right.
Lisa Radzak: you know.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Right.
Lisa Radzak: And by the way,
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Exactly.
Lisa Radzak: This is very important to say. This isn't me s- casting judgment on any adult who's choosing to do whatever they wanna do with food. They're an adult, they should do what- they don't need Lisa's buy-in on that. I'm talking about an awareness around how we're showing up with our words and actions with kids whose brains are literally growing and developing and establishing their sense of self, how they view their body, how they view view food-
Lisa Radzak: for the rest of their life, right? So that's what I'm trying to say.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: I have a question about, so we have some kids that will eat a lot of desserts, Their weight is sometimes not a concern, which is why sometimes pediatricians don't flag the eating issue, 'cause they're eating and they're following their growth or whatever.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: So they're growing and they're not concerned. But what they're eating is, brownies, pancakes, ... cereals. But not nutritionally dense foods.
Lisa Radzak: Yeah quick hit and- So- ... quick hit and energy.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah. Yes, the sugar rush, and-
Lisa Radzak: Not a lot of fiber, not a lot of vitamins and min- yeah.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: And when, Easy to break down. So a lot of times people don't realize that, but those foods that they're eating, it gets a, like a hit of dopamine brain-wise- ... with the sugar. And then this other thing is, it takes very little effort to eat. So if they're having trouble moving food around in their mouth- yeah
Christine Miroddi Yoder: It's a much easier food. So those foods are easier to eat, and they make their brain feel happy. So there's a twofold reason why a lot of times they're eating those foods. However, we know that they need more actual variety of nutrients. Now, I think it's so tricky. Like, how do parents talk to their kids about the importance of eating healthy without doing the...
Christine Miroddi Yoder: tying it to the body? Do you have any suggestions on that?
Lisa Radzak: Bus- because what you just said this thing about it's hard for us to get our head around what a... it's so real. Because if you pause and think about it, nothing you just said- At all tied food to appearance
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Oh, yeah, that's true.
Lisa Radzak: What you said is just quality... you're talking and I'm like, "We should do a clip of that on With All Sight," because it's about the function and the value of food and how it helps our health and wellbeing. You're not talking about body shaming or food shaming.
Lisa Radzak: You're talking about certain foods provide certain value. And too much of any one food is a problem. Too much of any one type of food is a problem for these specific reasons based in fact, right?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: So saying
Lisa Radzak: there's no-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: So we need to limit your candy intake, that wouldn't necessarily cause an eating disorder because we said, eating straight sugar for several hours is not good for you.
Lisa Radzak: Exactly. And it's tricky because we have to pause and be like, wait, I don't want them to feel bad about the candy, right? But there's straight up facts. And now in, in the field with eating disorder prevention and eating disorder treatment, the one of the things we say is there's no bad foods, right?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: I have heard that.
Lisa Radzak: Some people may cringe at the idea that there are no bad foods. Looking at the ingredients in some foods can raise questions.
[Personal food anecdote removed.]
Lisa Radzak: So I went back and forth with a PhD diet-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: I call it a food-like product.
Lisa Radzak: A food-like product. Went back and forth with a PhD dietician who I think the absolute world of, Dr. Katie Lowes, by the way. She's just the best.
Lisa Radzak: Went back and forth. 'Cause
Christine Miroddi Yoder: they put something in there that's probably addictive.
Lisa Radzak: They put stuff in there. And we go back to the division of responsibility in feeding and eating. And I'm not sure where you're at on that, but the idea is like-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Oh, we have Ellyn Satter
Lisa Radzak: we, yeah, what we have in the house, like we control what we have in the house, we control what we make available. And there really is a place for all foods. a place. Now, if what we're living on is Takis, or not even living, but it's if- there's again, too much of anything and not enough variety and macronutri- like,
Lisa Radzak: We have to have a variety. But, and none of that has to tie back to our appearance or our body or how it makes us look-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: yeah
Lisa Radzak: ... or any of those things,
Christine Miroddi Yoder: right? Yeah.
Lisa Radzak: And the side note is, and you do this so well in your resources and courses w- you do this so well, we don't need to shame or make anyone feel bad about their food either, but just being aware to be aware.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah. Yeah. If
Lisa Radzak: we're eating pancakes and brownies, and this is what's gonna happen with our body, it's gonna make us feel a certain way. Here's what we're gonna be missing, and this can be a serious thing. We have to check that.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah. I love that. That is, that's great.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: What are the red flags that they're not just being selective eater, that there's some body image issues that might be teetering into some of these other eating disorders like bulimia, anorexia how do they know?
Lisa Radzak: One of the things that we always say is it's, it- it's often not a one-time oh, they just did this, or I'm concerned because of this one time thing.
Lisa Radzak: It's usually a pattern and things change. And you... Th- there's a period I think a lot of parents will go through, when we're talking just about parents now. For sometimes in fact, it can be almost be easier for others, like coaches and schools and teachers to see some of these things because you're not...
Lisa Radzak: When it's your kid, you'll be almost in like a health... It- it's like a, a protective state of denial almost. Like you'll not, you'll try to figure out, your brain will try to figure out other rationalizations for why you're seeing what you're seeing. So it can go for a little bit before you're like, oh no, there's a problem.
Lisa Radzak: I say that because there's so many parents that I know that will feel so much guilt about they didn't do something sooner, and I really want people to try to have compassion with their themselves because- I don't know a parent who's not doing the best they can. Y- and so yeah, you didn't see it sooner, but there's reasons why you didn't see...
Lisa Radzak: so some of the patterns that seeing is just, things around food. You notice they're not eating when they used to eat at certain times, or all of a sudden they have different they're suddenly like not eating this category of foods. Or the one I say that can really be a red flag, and it's not to disrespect the vegans and vegetarians around us, because there's some value in that as people do it, if they're able to do it.
Lisa Radzak: You have to have, There's dietary needs around it that you have to be able to adjust for, right? For veganism- ... and vegetarianism. But if a adolescent or teen suddenly is a vegan or a vegetarian, that for me is a red flag. It doesn't mean it's not valid. It doesn't mean that no, they really are entering veganism or vegetarianism.
Lisa Radzak: But it's why are we suddenly vegan or vegetarian, right? So to really look into that. And I say that because it's an example that fits for many different things, not just those things. If it's suddenly these things that you know relate to food- ... or body, exercise, it- it's something yellow flag, right?
Lisa Radzak: It's like, let's look into what are we doing here. Why are we not doing this, or why are we doing so much of this, why are we exercising in ways we never did before, or we're feeling really upset if we don't exercise the same amount, or we're... some of the other things is you just notice, separate from the actual food intake, changes around meal times or social activities that involve food.
Lisa Radzak: Things related to their appearance, like covering up. The one that I think is really obvious, but I think it's worth saying for some people that don't feel like it's as obvious, is comments about their body. Feeling too fat, too thin
Christine Miroddi Yoder: you mean like the child verbalizing the stuff about their body?
Lisa Radzak: Or an adolescent even. Okay. A lot of image, checking themselves in the mirror, feeling, and then the other one that's can be big is like they're, it's tricky 'cause a lot of the kids dress like this now, a lot of baggy clothes to kinda cover their body. That w- that used to be one that we would say, but now I'm like good luck with that," 'cause the kids are wearing the sweats and the...
Lisa Radzak: So that's a little bit like a standard uniform now, so it's trickier. But if they didn't, if they didn't used to dress like that, and now all of a sudden they seem like they're kinda trying to cover up that's, those are some other things.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Okay. That's good for parents to know too.
Lisa Radzak: We have a resource on that too, I don't know, I can share for the show notes.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Whatever resources you have, I'll definitely put-
Lisa Radzak: Yeah.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: ... in the notes. So what should parents know about guidance from or for pediatricians or maybe family medicine doctors regarding growth charts or BMI or weight talk?
Lisa Radzak: Thank you so much for asking that.
Lisa Radzak: You said something in the last few rounds of questions here that reminded me of with pediatricians, I remember now what it was. You said the ped- the, oftentimes it won't get checked because their weight is normal and they're... That's a very real issue. We have a, Withall has a course, What to Say: Healthcare, for pediatricians and family medical docs that's on this issue of how to effectively talk about growth, weight, height, et cetera in ways that avoid unintentionally causing bad outcomes.
Lisa Radzak: Because traditionally the way docs are trained, and still today in a lot of cases, is it's very, it's a scienti- it's a profession of science, right? So they go in and it's and they'll communicate often, unless someone, unless they're aware of this, they'll communicate often in ways that are a little bit more on the numbers side with height and weight.
Lisa Radzak: And that's not just the pediatricians . A lot of our, us parents want that. Give me something to know how I'm doing. Give me some grade on, like, how my kid's weight and height is and my percentiles. It feels like we're leaving the office with some tangible information and-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah.
Lisa Radzak: now we know how we're doing as a parent, right?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Absolutely.
Lisa Radzak: We just give me the percentile. So parents are just really hungry for that. And I can understand that. But one of the things that this What to Say: Healthcare course does is it helps docs understand from a whole bunch of years of research on this subject to, to think about how the kid is perceiving what we're saying and communicating, right?
Lisa Radzak: And the reality is, as I always say, these percentiles and the weight and height, especially for those of us that are, remember what I said about neuro, the, our genetics. And I said where a lot of us are wired to be perfectionists. We got those charts and it was a straight up grade, right? Here's how you're doing-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: yeah
Lisa Radzak: in life.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: It's literally like-
Lisa Radzak: Like, your grade ...
Christine Miroddi Yoder: this is the line. And- Are you below it or above it? ...
Lisa Radzak: for those of us, it just felt like we're... Yeah, it's a grade. It's a grade. And it, the percentile thing is just like, how am I doing? How am I doing, right? So what we encourage in this is when we're talking about, to think about height, weight, BMI just like we do any other health measure, right?
Lisa Radzak: We don't communicate with the kids about their white blood cell count. We don't communicate... When there's an issue, we need to bring it up and talk about it in a way that's in- based in information. And we're not saying don't record the information, 'cause you really need it. You need to track, the doctor needs to track, right?
Lisa Radzak: And why I just brought that up when you said the thing about kids only eating, this, and this and saying it's fine, it's something that because we've had such a tradition of being so focused on anti-childhood obesity, it's if a kid has lower weight or normal weight, they're fine, they're eating great.
Lisa Radzak: But if a kid has a higher body weight, it's oh, there's a problem here. And you could have the kid with the lower body weight, normal weight, eating absolutely appalling foods-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah.
Lisa Radzak: ... and the kid with the higher body weight that we're concerned about could be the healthiest kid in all of the community.
Lisa Radzak: Yeah. But we're, now we're gonna double down on their weight and their weight issues, and we're fine with this other kid. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, we're missing I don't know what percentage of the population. Oh, you're doing great, nothing to say there. So I just really value I know our pediatrician just really is about regardless of your weight and BMI, talking about food and how are you doing with eating different foods.
Lisa Radzak: Are you eating colorful foods whenever you can, have access, are you trying to eat a variety, trying new foods? Doesn't matter what you weigh,
Christine Miroddi Yoder: that's the important question, is are you eating a variety of foods, and, are you eating from all food groups?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Assuming you're not vegan or something.
Lisa Radzak: And for, I, I know you know this very well for these these adolescent and teenage girls and boys, I, I would imagine as well, I've just seen research for the girls, are you drinking, are you taking in enough calcium vitamin D, this critical place of their bone development for way later in life.
Lisa Radzak: We base so much in our culture on weight, and then that determines how we're gonna communicate about things. And it's like we miss, oh, we miss some things. Yeah. Big things, so our course is on that. It's about how to have these conversations. But they don't learn in medical school, right?
Lisa Radzak: They're not taught. They're not taught dietetics, they're not taught communication and they're not taught child development, how a child is taking in that information psychologically, right?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: No. They don't have training on that, as far as I know. Although-
Christine Miroddi Yoder: I believe they're gonna have to have some nutrition education.
Lisa Radzak: Oh,
Lisa Radzak: that's good.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah. I don't know when it'll take effect, but that's now a m- a mandate
Lisa Radzak: oh, okay.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: So I'm very excited about that.
Lisa Radzak: That's good. That's really good.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah. So now where can people find you, and how can parents specifically get, this type of help if they need it?
Lisa Radzak: Very good question. So o- on our website, and I know sometimes people hear on the website and it's oh, I'm not gonna be able to find it. We really work to make it very easy to find. Withall, W-I-T-H-A-L-L.O-R-G.
Lisa Radzak: It's resources. Then it's divided by who you are, and you'll see doctor, parent. But if you're a parent, you can go look at what it is, what we have for, healthcare providers or teachers and it can be useful to you or to share it that way too. So really wanna emphasize we don't come at this from "It's all on the parents to figure this out."
Lisa Radzak: It's not. But we also, the reality is us parents- we spend a lot of time with our kids and have a lot of influence with those that our kids interact with.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think we've talked about so many valuable things. I think parents can take a lot away from what we've talked about and hopefully integrate some of the suggestions in their lives.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to share?
Lisa Radzak: No, I just wanted to say thank you for your stuff, Christine, and the way you do it because I think and it's hard to thread that needle of keeping it focused on the health and wellbeing of the kids while addressing food and needs around feeding and eating.
Lisa Radzak: And so I'm just grateful to you for doing this work in such a health focused- mentally and physically. It feels like you really work to have both as key parts of your work and that's very difficult to do.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah. There's a, it's a multidisciplinary type of a multi-layered thing right?
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Food is just... And it's part of every part of our society, culture, even religions get into food. It's just so pervasive, but yet it's so complicated. It seems like a simple thing to so many people, but it's so complicated. It involves your nervous system and your psychology and- ... your self-image and your nutritional status.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: It's just crazy. And like you said, you can have somebody at a higher weight that's eating very well and someone at a lower weight who is eating absolute nothing, like zero nutritional foods and you just you just don't know. You can't judge by the weight. And I think if parents can just take even that away of you can't just judge by the body.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Keep the body image out of it. That's what I think we've learned.
Lisa Radzak: Seriously. And yeah, that's And I, du- just quick 'cause you said it, it's something like 94% of eating disorders you're not gonna see. You can't tell from the outside.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: I think that's a really good point. Yeah.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Yeah.
Lisa Radzak: And for some of us, like you just look like the happiest, healthiest kid. And that's part of the, that's part of it. So it's don't think you're gonna see an eating disorder 'cause from the physical appearance. Yeah.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: So important. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. And all of your links and everything are in the show notes, so if anyone is looking for help with this or knows somebody, please forward the interview or resources to them so that they can get the help that they need.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: Cause like you said, earlier is always better.
Lisa Radzak: Oh, so much better.
Christine Miroddi Yoder: And there's no better time to start than today, fantastic. All right thanks so much. And we'll see you in the next episode.
